Customer Onboarding and Implementation Processes w/ Jordan Silverman

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This is a podcast episode titled, Customer Onboarding and Implementation Processes w/ Jordan Silverman. The summary for this episode is: <p>Today, Jordan Silverman, Vice President of Customer Success at MarketMan, joins the show today for a discussion on customer success onboarding, and how to handle unresponsive customers during onboarding.</p><p><br></p><p>If you want to join the discussion with thousands of other customer success leaders, join Gain Grow Retain: <a href="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a></p><p>Connect with Jordan Silverman on LinkedIn: <a href="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a></p><p><br></p><p>This podcast is brought to you by Jay Nathan and Jeff Breunsbach...</p><p>Jay Nathan: <a href="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a></p><p>Jeff Breunsbach: <a href="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a></p>
The onboarding process at MarketMan
01:32 MIN
Spend time with your customers - See what their day is like
02:50 MIN
Putting together a customer journey map tailored to them, not just you
02:02 MIN
Incentivizing customers in their implementation processes
03:00 MIN

Intro: Welcome to the Gain Grow Retain podcast.

Jeff: Hey, Gain Grow Retain, I wanted to tell you about iDigress, which is hosted by Troy Sandidge and brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. It's got shows under 30 minutes and it helps to eliminate complexity, complications and confusion in your business through a series of frameworks and strategies. He talks all about scalable and sustainable success, he hits on things like marketing, sales, customer success and more. So go check out iDigress and listen to iDigress wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Welcome back to another episode of Gain Grow Retain. So today, I've got with us Jordan Silverman, who is the VP of Customer Success at MarketMan, and Jordan, I think you're coming to us live from the Orange State? Wait, I'm messing that up.

Jordan Silverman: All I can say is thanks for having me and I'm currently looking at palm trees outside my window and it's 80 degrees.

Jeff: Man.

Jordan Silverman: I'm not complaining.

Jeff: Yeah. I am now embarrassed, I'm trying to go look up Florida. I thought it was the state of oranges, but I could just be totally making that up right now.

Jordan Silverman: Isn't it the Sunshine State?

Jeff: Yeah, Sunshine State, that's what I was going for. I was thinking of Sunshine State and then I went to the orange juice, I don't know why, but anyways. I might have to cut that part out. But Jordan, excited to have you on today, I know you've been in our community for a long time and been with Gain Grow Retain. So I appreciate your support and then appreciate you hopping on to share what you've been learning and doing at MarketMan.

Jordan Silverman: Thanks for having me, I'm excited to be here.

Jeff: All right. Some early questions, I like to do just some icebreakers, catch you off guard, learn a little bit about you. We're coming up on the Thanksgiving holiday, do you celebrate Thanksgiving?

Jordan Silverman: Yes.

Jeff: Okay. As part of Thanksgiving, what's your go- to, what's the one thing that has to be at Thanksgiving dinner? If your family doesn't make it or if your in- laws don't make it, you're like, " Oh, I'm going to make this myself if nobody else is going to make it." What's the one thing that has to be there?

Jordan Silverman: I find the protein aspect of Thanksgiving to be my least favorite, I'm all about the carbs and sides. All about the carbs and sides for me. My favorite is, growing up we used to have a sweet potato casserole basically, with the marshmallows on top, and I just remember being a kid and just picking off the marshmallows, as they were roasted. So that's my go- to, that's my favorite.

Jeff: I like it. Yeah, I'm with you. Normally we've done a fried turkey, so that's great, I like it, but at the same time it's not my, I don't know, it's not my go- to. I'm a big, I love sweet potato casserole, and recently my mom and my wife are both making this corn casserole that I've loved. It's basically got this Jiffy corn muffin mix that you mix in there and when they do it, I'm just like, " Man, this is right up my alley." So I'm all about the corn mix as well, and I can't lie, I'm a big desert guy, so pumpkin pie hits the spot for me too.

Jordan Silverman: I also love, not fresh, but the canned cranberry sauce. I don't want fresh, I want the one that is the lob coming out of the can.

Jeff: I like that. Normally people are opposite, right? They're like, " Oh, I want something fresh." You're like, " Nope. Just give me the good old fashioned..." I like it. I'm also, people might stop listening to the podcast now, but I'm totally out on cranberry sauce. Never liked it, could never get into it. My wife thinks I'm crazy, my mom thinks I'm crazy. So I imagine I'm going to lose some subscribers here, I don't know how many we have, but we're out. All right, so we've touched Thanksgiving, now let's just, in a normal weekend, like a perfect Sunday for Jordan Silverman, if it's just a normal weekend, you're down in Florida now, what's a typical or what's something that you're going to be doing on Sunday mornings?

Jordan Silverman: I'm an early bird during the week, so I'm waking up at 5: 30, 5:45 during the week every morning. On the weekend, love sleeping in. I don't want to wake up until 10: 00 or 11:00, stay in bed, hang out, and then either make a big brunch, have some bagels, just relax. That's my favorite thing to do on a Sunday morning.

Jeff: I like it. We have two dogs, and if I could, they typically will stay in bed with us, but they're still rustling around, and they'll actually wait. So we normally wake up like 6: 00 AM on the weekdays and they're up and at them, but on the weekends they know, they'll stay in bed until 8: 00- ish until they really start moving around. But if I can get to 8: 30 or so, or 9: 00, that's a good weekend. But I'm with you, if you can get a couple extra hours, normally than the weekday.

Jordan Silverman: The best.

Jeff: All right, last icebreaker and then we'll actually move on to the real content and maybe why people are here. But what, are you a Harry Potter fan?

Jordan Silverman: Yes.

Jeff: All right, which dorm are you in from Harry Potter?

Jordan Silverman: I was actually at Harry Potter World last weekend in Universal Studios.

Jeff: How was it?

Jordan Silverman: Amazing. But it was unbelievable how many people are Slytherin. I didn't realize that, I just assumed everyone was Gryffindor. Maybe naively, I just assumed everyone wanted to be in Gryffindor. So many Slytherin, but I'm Gryffindor.

Jeff: Man, I like it. So you might find this funny, but I've never read the books or watched the movies, and my wife has recently, in the last two weeks, we've gone through the first four movies and so she's getting me into it. So even before that, she would always call me out and say like, " Oh, you might be a Slytherin. Oh, you might be a Hufflepuff." I would just be like, " I have no clue what you're talking about." So she always found that funny. I find myself in Ravenclaw, yeah. The more I'm watching these and getting into it, maybe it's just because Gryffindor is just... I feel like everyone's going to be on that. But like you said, I don't know, there's a lot of Slytherin out there. But anyways...

Jordan Silverman: I read the books growing up, and then a couple years ago I actually listened to the audio books, really awesome experience. The guy who does them has different voices for all the characters. If you're into it, the Audible Harry Potter's are awesome.

Jeff: Man, that's a good idea. I would have thought, actually, but now that you say it, it's got to be a nice production. I was going to say maybe JK Rowling was doing it, but you've got to make that a real production, that's got to be the real... That's cool how he does multiple voices, I like that. All right, cool. Well, we are here today to talk a little bit more about customer success and specifically just diving into onboarding. I think there's a great thread that we'll reference here in our Gain Grow Retain community from a number of people, that topic will go deep on unresponsive customers during onboarding, but I'm just curious now at MarketMan for you all, what's that onboarding and implementation process look like? What kind of roles do you have involved in that? How have you tried to make sure to make that repeatable for you as a business, but making sure that customers are successful through that period as well?

Jordan Silverman: Onboarding is everything for us at MarketMan. So just some background, we are a SaaS application for hospitality businesses, mostly restaurants, quick service, full service and hotels. 90% of our clients pay us monthly, 10% single. So 90% monthly, we've got to get the onboarding right up front. So we are putting a tremendous amount of resources, time, head count, towards that first 60, 90, 180 days, that's really our core. So the way that we structured our team is we have a couple different roles, so the first role we have is classic CSMs, successful happy customers, that's their responsibility. They are owning the client relationship. We have two other unique roles, so we have onboarding specialists and trainers. Onboarding specialists are responsible for getting the data populated. So we are an inventory software, there's a somewhat large lift to get it set up, easy once it's up and running, but it takes some time to get set up, that's where the onboarding team comes in. Then we have our trainers who are about activation, so their main KPI is activation rate. So we're really focused on how do we get in front of the customers, spend time with the customers, and make sure that the customers are seeing that first value as quickly as possible? Because we need to prove an ROI quickly.

Jeff: That is a really cool example, and I like the way you outlined that. So when you think about those roles that you have, does the customer get those, all three of those people on day one? Or do you have to sequence it? Is it more of an account team that's coming in and" Hey, here's how we're going to make you successful over the next 90 days." How does that work?

Jordan Silverman: Client signs up and every single client, doesn't matter of it's an SMB, mid market enterprise, every single client has a dedicated CSM and every single client is going through a kickoff call. So on that kickoff call, the CSM is going to introduce the process. The onboarding specialist and trainer start behind the scenes, because we don't want to overwhelm the client with too many points of contact, so everything gets funneled through the CSM. The CSM is basically making sure everything gets organized and everything's going okay.

Jeff: Got it. So you mentioned, it sounds like activation rate was really where you're putting that emphasis on the trainers, it sounds like, I'm going to call it time to data population, but that time to live is the metric for those onboarding specialists. Then I would imagine, maybe as you go forward, but I don't know if there's other roles involved, but then the CSM is probably charged with that renewal or longterm retention aspect. So those are those key metrics that you're looking at to say, " Okay, are these teams performing the right things and doing the right activities?"

Jordan Silverman: Spot on, literally spot on. So the onboarding team is responsible for time to onboard, how long does it take in days? We're trying to keep it from seven to nine days, that's the goal. Training team, activation rate, so what percent are getting activated within 30 days? We want to see that within 30 days. Then the CSMs are the classic net turn portfolio performance, our CSMs own the entire post- sales process. Renewals, upsells, cross sales, return, downgrades, that all sits within the CSM function, so they're actually being compensated on how is their portfolio as a whole performing.

Jeff: Awesome. So man, this is actually, I didn't realize the two nuances that I think, which make your response to this question in Gain Grow Retain even more amplified, for me at least, is that you are getting paid monthly and you also, for the most part, and you're also dealing in the hospitality industry, which I would imagine there is probably just a large number, there's probably a lot more switching happening in terms of vendors, I would imagine, in that industry, than any others, just because of the sheer amount of customers that you can have, restaurants, hotels, whatever, there's different types of restaurants, the quick serve, the sit- down, the franchise model, whatever it is, there's probably a litany of those, and then there's probably a litany of tools that they could be using. So it makes your challenge really interesting, because you've got this pressure, multiple market pressures I think that are happening that are making sure that your team is dialed in, in the right areas.

Jordan Silverman: Absolutely. Forever, hospitality is considered tech ladders, think of it as teaching your mom how to use her phone. It's not bad, but it's not like us. So the first challenge we saw was we're teaching software to not always the most tech savvy people, a ton of them are, I'm generalizing. The second thing that we've seen in whatever version of COVID we live in now, iteration 15, there's a huge labor shortage for restaurants. So we're also seeing what used to be managers, finance, ops, behind the scenes people actually now working more front- of- house, so that's actually made it even more important that we get them set up, activated quickly, and somewhat on their own schedule, because they don't know what tomorrow's schedule looks like all the time.

Jeff: Yeah. It's super interesting, and it's one of the things that we talk about with our teams quite a bit too, and this goes back to I think maybe a little bit more of the unpredictability you talked about, and I think this is in a lot of SaaS companies. In some cases, when you're in the building, you're in the four walls, you think, " Oh, my customer must be spending 1005 of their time and my product and my service, they must be, they're learning how to be wizards, they're doing everything. Oh, they're going to become experts, right?" Then you start talking to your customers and then you start realizing, " Oh, man. Wait a minute, you're not spending 100% of your time." Then you start looking at the data and you then you're like, by the end of it you're like, " Oh, wow. They're probably spending 20% to 30% of their time in my software, in our software, what they're doing, what are they doing with that other 70%? How else can I be beneficial to them?" So just like you mentioned, that unpredictability of what are they doing in the other parts of their day- to- day, we talk about that quite a bit because I still think where you develop great relationships with your day- to- day contacts, with your champions, it's not in the 30%, but that is the beneficial part, that's the part that you're going to drive ROI on and whatever else, but where you develop the relationships that span multiple companies, that span multiple years is when you start helping that person in the 70% to say, " Hey, you're probably doing XY and Z, you're probably linking our data with other systems and you're probably trying to get all this type of reporting, hey, here's some examples of other people who have done it before." Or, " Hey, you might have to go present a board deck based on some of this data, here's an example board deck that we put together. This might be beneficial to you." So I love your point though of like, " Hey, we've got to, not only do we have to nail the part that they're in our software, but we have to also be empathetic and know your role used to be strictly behind- the- house, now you're going to be a little bit in front- of- house, there's probably a big shift for you, we need to be a little bit more empathetic about that and be thinking about, are we doing the right activities? Are we asking them for too much time? When do we ask them for the right amount of time?" That kind of stuff. It's really interesting.

Jordan Silverman: I do think as people on CS and people that are sitting at a desk all day, we do lose sight sometimes of what other people are doing. One of the things we're trying to get a lot better at as a company is having our team spend time in the field, spend a day with a customer, it doesn't even have to be about MarketMan, just follow them around, see what they're doing every day. That's going to help you as a CSM, you as a salesperson, you as a trainer so much in terms of understanding, empathizing, but more importantly, helping the client be successful.

Jeff: Yeah, that is. So we have a services' arm to our business where we build communities and we end up running communities on behalf of some of our customers, and so then we also have a team internally who is actually running an association as well, and so you actually can get, like you said, go spend time with them. They're in the thick of it, they're going through the day- to- day, you can really learn a lot from sidecar- ing and sitting alongside of them when you're doing that. We've done, similar to you all, we've got our implementation leader, Ryan, has done a great job with him and his team over the last 12 to 24 months. They've really, and it sounds similar to you all, they've really looked at, " Hey, we know that we need to get time to value in a quicker way. We need to get them onto the software, something that they're paying for." You're going through that trough of despair right up to they pay, right after they sign the contract, they're thinking, " Oh, did I make the right decision?" So a couple of things that you mentioned that I think are parallel to the way we've looked at is as well, are we introducing the right people at the right times? Are we not overwhelming them? I think the second thing is, are we making sure that we're asking, are we asking them to go through the right order of operations? In some cases, I think sometimes you just throw a bunch at a customer in the beginning and say, " Hey, great. You're a new customer, glad you're here. Here's 15 links and things that I need you to go do." Then the customer's sitting there saying, " Oh, my gosh. That's a lot of stuff and I don't know when I'm going to be able to do this." So how do we make that into an order of operations that makes sense and is also part and parcel for our timeline, also with the customer's timeline? We always want to say, " Hey, we've got to push customers in, we've got to get them through and we've got so many more coming, and we can't let the customer dictate everything all the time. There's got to be some of that symbiotic piece." So those are a couple things that just stand out to me, introducing the right person to the right time and then thinking about, " How do we make sure that this is the right order of operations, so that it's repeatable for us, but it's also, it makes sense for what the customer's trying to achieve?" I think that's the first thing that we have to always think about. Hello, Gain Grow Retain, this is Jeff. You might be listening to the show today for many reasons, maybe you're looking to learn something new, maybe you looking to listen to a speaker that you love, or maybe you're driving and the copilot has control of the radio. Whatever the case is, I wanted to tell you about HubSpot CRM platform and some new pieces that improve the customer experience. First, customer intelligence tools that help your teams get realtime insight into calls through automatic recording, transcription and analysis. Think about the types of conversations and coaching that you could do with your customer teams. Next is easy share meeting links, which let your customers see availability and book meetings with you all from the HubSpot platform. Last, improved data hygiene, and that always is needed in a CRM platform. So learn more about how you can transform your customer experience with a HubSpot CRM platform at HubSpot. com.

Jordan Silverman: I think anyone can write down a customer journey map, but actually getting a customer journey that fits the customer, not just your company, is the hard fun exciting part, because it can't just be you writing something down, it has to be you writing something down and then constantly talking to customers and iterating on it to make sure that what you have as your customer journey actually fits your customers.

Jeff: Yeah. You have to actually, it's almost like bringing customers into that process, right? We've even talked about showcasing some of that work to a couple of handpicked customers. " Hey, we've got some good relationships with you, does this map well? Is this actually reality in terms of what's happening? Or what are other elements?" There's a couple of examples I've seen recently of people doing really nice work around customer journeys. I've seen two really good examples recently of customer journeys, and the reason I think I like them as I was going through was they did a really nice job of using customer language and thinking about key moments in the customer's journey, not our journey, right? So there was one example where they were talking about, they were even just mentioning things that might be happening throughout that, this company was dealing with HR and benefits and payroll specialists and stuff, and in their customer journey they put stuff like, " Oh, it's the 15th of the month, you might have to be doing payroll. Oh, it's this, you might have to be doing XY and Z." It was just nice, because it recognized moments that were outside of their software, but it was in the persona and saying, " Hey, you might be going through this, so we just want to acknowledge that we know that there's other things on your plate, not just implementing our software." So back to your point, I think getting it truly in the customer lens, I think everybody just does it with a slant. They call it customer journey and then they do it the slant of like, " Hey, this is actually our journey, we're just trying to make it the customer's journey."

Jordan Silverman: Yeah. Totally agree, it's got to be good for everyone. It's got to be.

Jeff: Yeah. So the question that popped up in GGR, and what sparked this conversation, was we had one of our members in there just paraphrasing the start of this thread, but she had talked about how they have a fixed price high- touch onboarding that last four to six months, there's about a two- hour per week commitment on the customer lens, and they've been struggling recently with the responsiveness of customers and that's creating delays, which then if it creates a delay from the customer side, then that implementation team can't be doing as many onboarding, now we've got a backlog of onboarding. It creates a lot of challenges for the business. So there was just a bunch of questions throwing around, how can you incentivize customers to get through implementation? What are ways that we can be doing that better? Other different communication methods and things? So I think you had just mentioned, and obviously now looking at your perspective, you're dealing with a lot, I would imagine a lot of implementations, a lot of customers in the industry that you're in, and so you had just mentioned a couple of key processes to try and decrease the amount of no- show and rescheduled meetings in some of those missed milestones. So why don't you maybe touch on some of those and how you guys got there?

Jordan Silverman: I think everyone in CS goes through the frustration of, " I'm spending more time than my client is. Why do I care more than my client does?" I think everyone in customer success feels that on a regular basis, and I think the first thing, we talked about it before, the first thing is try to empathize, try to understand their situation. But then our responsibility as CS leaders is to figure out a solution, that's what we have to do. Like GGR people we're talking about, my initial thought was, " Let's penalize customers if they don't get onboarded in a certain amount of time." I don't like penalties, I feel like we are all sales people. Our job is to spin things in positive lights, so we don't want to penalize a customer, we want to have them feel FOMO if they're not getting a benefit that other people are. So I realized I wanted to do some sort of benefit, but I didn't know what. So I was talking to my brother and they implemented DocSend, and they had a really cool program where for their mid market and enterprise customers, what they did is in each company, they said, " Whoever sends the most documents in the 14- day trial gets a prize. If you send any, you get entered into a raffle." It's brilliant to me, because literally incentivizing the end users to adapt the technology in a really cheap and scalable way.

Jeff: Yeah. That is genius, by the way. Everyone, " Oh, I just have to send documents." That's a low barrier to entry for me as a person, I don't need to be, there's not this big intricate thing where I have to go submit my name or I have to go big, I have to fill out seven forms, send in something via mail. It's literally like you start doing this activity, we're going to log it and we're going to make sure you're entered. That is such, that's cool.

Jordan Silverman: My brother was telling me it literally was a Slack channel of people talking smack within the company, but they were sending more documents. The whole time I'm just thinking like, " This company is making a killing out of this silly little game." Right? So I wanted to implement something similar at MarketMan where it's not financial penalty, but it's a reward for those that are actually doing something. So we tried two things, one of which has worked great, the other not so much, transparently speaking. So first thing was if you show up to every training, so a customer goes through four training sessions with MarketMan, if you show up to all four of those without missing one, you get a month free of MarketMan.

Jeff: Wow.

Jordan Silverman: It's worked great.

Jeff: That's a pretty good... Like you said, low barrier to entry too, it's only four sessions and then you're telling me I get to go back into my organization and say, " Hey, because I attended these four things and I prioritized this in our work, now we've saved X- amount of dollars."

Jordan Silverman: It's worked great, exactly. Now, the second thing we tried, so that one has worked really well, the second thing we tried is if you show up to every training, not only will you get a month free, but you'll also get a raffle ticket into a free company lunch. MarketMan will sponsor a team lunch for you and your team. That didn't work as well as we thought it would. The customers that won were really excited about it, we have awesome pictures of people eating Jimmy John's, tacos, going out to steak dinners with the two co- founders. We have a ton of awesome pictures from it, but we found that people would rather the free month, something more tangible than the opportunity to win something.

Jeff: That makes sense, but I like the approach, like you said, " Hey, you want to implement something around a reward whether than a penalty." Because at the end of the day, the last thing you want to do, I think about this, I think the same thing you're probably going down or you were thinking as you're going down this is, " Somebody's bought software..." I think of the trough of despair a lot, it's this consulting image that everyone knows, but is it really true? I actually tend to think it is. The immediate time you buy something, especially if it's for your business, you're the one who's putting your credibility on the line to other stakeholders or leaders in the organization, you're saying, " Yes, this is the tool." The moment you actually sign that contract, you have that oh- shit moment and you're like, " Wow. I actually have to go execute now. Now I've done all this work, gone through the RFP, I've done whatever, demos, I've gone through this, I've put this all down on paper, but now the decision is mine, I've made it." You go through that moment, and so I think like you were saying, I think the wrong thing to do is like, " I'm already in that trough of despair, and then if you tell me there's financial penalties about something, I'm going down further. Now I'm down to the depths, because it's probably not only me that I need to rally to do some of those meetings or do some of those trainings, it's probably other people, right?" So it's like, " Man, that really gets..." But if you turn around and say, " Hey, we actually want to reward you." Now I'm back on the come- up, I'm like, " Oh, you actually want to..." Now I can go back to those people and say, " Hey, guess what? Not only did we pick this great software, it's working well, we adopted it, we went through the training, but now just to let you know, after six months, we just got a month free, so now it costs us less than I initially thought it was." That is a huge win, and the reason I like that so much is that you are basically taking your champion and been able to turn them back internal to say, " Hey, go talk about us more in a good light, because we're giving you a free month for adopting the product."

Jordan Silverman: I think the trough of despair is such a great way to describe it, because so many people's first reaction is, " Let's get sales back involved. Let's go over our champion's head to the buyer." But that's just digging yourself a hole. You want to build up your champion. Now, if you have a poor champion, you're going to run into other issues, but if you have the right person, he's going to find out what's happening and then try to motivate, versus demotivate.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, that is a good way to put it. It is demotivating. So the other thing I'm just sitting here thinking about is, are there other ideas we can come up with about incentives or rewards for people to start adopting and using the products? One example that I was just thinking about is, " Hey, if you..." For us, back when we used to have stuff in person, we had a big event for Hydrologic customers and it was a really, it was a big deal. It wasn't tens- of- thousands of people, but it was a big deal because we got really passionate people, and so one thing I'm thinking about is, " Hey, if you successfully onboard or go through this type of, the right meetings or trainings or mechanisms that we need, but we'll comp your ticket to our annual event or we'll comp your hotel room to our annual event. You come and save some money there." But that to me might be another reward system where it's like, " Hey, we have this event, we want you to come and be here, and what better way we can entice you to come is you do this well and you start adopting it, you're going to come meet more evangelists and we're going to pay for you to come do it?"

Jordan Silverman: Totally agree, and we liked the idea of a free family meal raffle, because we wanted everyone to like MarketMan, not just our champion. That was the initial goal, how do you get everyone at the company, everyone at the restaurant liking MarketMan? But I think if you have the right champion and you're able to build them up, and then as you said, give them free tickets. It's small stuff, it doesn't have to be anything major, just showing you care will go so far.

Jeff: Yeah, definitely. Another way I was just thinking about, you could try and do that raffle idea as well, and this might not work better, but the other thing that I thought of is let them pick one or two people and go do an afternoon off where it's a lunch and a spa day or something.

Jordan Silverman: Exactly.

Jeff: How do you, it's almost like how could you let that champion create an intimate moment with two other people? Then those two other people are like, " Wait, who is doing this for us? MarketMan is." So I was almost trying to think, I don't know, how could you make that moment more intimate where then those people feel connected to it?

Jordan Silverman: Yeah. For us, it started as the problem of, we have clients no- showing, rescheduling, not getting through training fast enough, and we evolved it into a customer journey that we talking about earlier of, how do we make sure that the journey fits the customer, but also incentivize and motivate our top customers who are getting through it in a really good way?

Jeff: Yeah. Sorry, I just keep thinking of other ideas really quick.

Jordan Silverman: Please, keep the coming, it's good to brainstorm.

Jeff: Another one that I was just thinking of is, I don't know, this is probably too big, this is probably too much money out the door, but what I was thinking of is what really would benefit, I would imagine, a hospitality staff, the restaurant probably only closes for a couple days a year, could you rent out the restaurant for half a day or a quarter of a day or something and say, " Hey, give your staff a couple extra hours off or something and it's on MarketMan?" That one might be a little bit too, the financial idea there might be a little bit too high compared to the cost of the product or whatnot. But back to your point, I was just trying to sit and think like, " Okay, if I'm in hospitality, what are some of those great moments that I think of back from my day?" When we got an unusual day off, because the restaurant closed or somebody had a private event or something was booked out and it was like, " Oh, we don't need everybody." Like you said, the team lunches and stuff, I remember doing that when I was growing up in hospitality, those were always fun because it was just a nice moment to come around a family meal. Man, I'm trying to think of other moments. That was another one that came to mind.

Jordan Silverman: I think where it could get really cool to us, as we continue to iterate and as we continue to improve our journey and how we help incentivize clients to get through, I think where we could get really creative is specializing per vertical and per region, because what fits a bar might not fit a full- service, and what fits a customer in Australia might not fit a customer in California. So I think as we continue to iterate and improve this, we can get super creative and make sure that our customers are not only getting onboarded and activated, but actually enjoying the process and talking about how fun it is. Because it's not just about getting usage, it's about enjoying it.

Jeff: Yeah. Well, and it's about that connection. I was actually about to ask you, I'm curious if you guys are at this stage yet or if it might be a little bit too early, but have you started to find some of those early champions and bring them together in community type settings? Are you connecting them with each other, restaurants from different states or different cities or things like that? I'm curious if that's started happening for you yet as an organic way, at least?

Jordan Silverman: One of our big goals for 2020 that turned into 2021, that will turn into 2022, is hosting an in- person conference. I think we're not ready for it yet, but I think next year we'll want to start doing that stuff. One of the things you actually did, which was pretty cool, is we actually took three or four of our top customers and we recently turned them into certified MarketMan consultants where they can actually go and help other customers who are struggling, help other customers who want to get more, not only out of the software, but just their business in general, and our champions, our best customers as consultants can make money on it and help other customers. That's one thing we just started doing was certifying our top customers, our top partners as consultants, so they can actually benefit others and benefit them.

Jeff: Did you certify them as consultants for, even more than your software? Did you certify them and say like, " Okay, you know our software, but now you actually know front- of- house, you know back- of- house." Did you go through that type of process?

Jordan Silverman: Good question. So the answer is, for this first part, we know them really well so we know they know those things. But as we expand, absolutely, because just since you can help someone on MarketMan doesn't mean you can actually help someone decrease their waste. Those are two different things. So for these couple first ones, we know them well, we are active, but absolutely. There needs to be almost a platform certification and then industry knowledge certification, because they're not always the same thing.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is cool. That's the way we're thinking about it too, right? You've got the platform and then you have the persona based certifications that I think about a lot, and if you can start to do both, if you can start to help people in both areas, that's where you start to win over and over again. That's cool. I know we've got just a couple minutes here, what's one thing for you that you need to get done before the end of the year? We've got six Fridays left, I actually was posting about this on LinkedIn, we have six Fridays left in the year, so what is one thing that you just know is like, " Man, I need to finish this in the next six weeks," before we close out the year?

Jordan Silverman: I'm going to cheat a little and give two things. Number one is making sure I, as a CS leader, have a plan for each person on my team of what they are going to achieve in 2022. Now, that's not me just top- down doing it, but working with each person on a plan to make sure that they are growing personally and professionally in 2022. I think you've got to do that before the year ends, so that's number one. Number two is we are in the process right now of translating all of our help and support...

Jeff: Oh, my gosh.

Jordan Silverman: ...and knowledge into different languages. So we have English, Spanish, I want to finish French and I want to start with Hebrew, those are our big languages.

Jeff: Wow.

Jordan Silverman: Yeah.

Jeff: That's awesome. Man, I like those. Those are two very actual things and two things that I appreciate, because they're not, I don't know... Sometimes when I ask people that question, they're like pie in the sky, they're like, " Oh, I need to go finish our five- year strategy." It's like, " Okay." But no, those are cool. I like those. All right, Jordan, if people want to find more of you, get in touch, this is your chance to plug here at the end, do you have a blog that you put out regularly? Do you have a website around? Are you on LinkedIn or Twitter? Give the people what they want, which is where can they find you?

Jordan Silverman: So first off, thanks for having me, Jeff. I really appreciate it, it's been really fun. You can find MarketMan at MarketMan. com, and me personally, LinkedIn or GGR, that's where I'm posting the most, Gain Grow Retain.

Jeff: Awesome. Man, that is a nice organic plug right there. We didn't pay him to say that, he said that on his own. Well, Jordan, I appreciate it, I hope you have a good weekend. It sounds like you're going to be heading back up into the Big Apple and getting some cold weather, but hopefully that goes well and you get a chance to come back and have a nice Thanksgiving with some family and friends.

Jordan Silverman: Thanks, Jeff, appreciate it. You too, have a great weekend.

Jeff: Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen to the Gain Grow Retain podcast. If you liked what you heard, please take a moment and share the podcast with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe. We really appreciate it. Talk to you soon.


Today, Jordan Silverman, Vice President of Customer Success at MarketMan, joins the show today for a discussion on customer success onboarding, and how to handle unresponsive customers during onboarding.

If you want to join the discussion with thousands of other customer success leaders, join Gain Grow Retain:

Connect with Jordan Silverman on LinkedIn:

This podcast is brought to you by Jay Nathan and Jeff Breunsbach...

Jay Nathan:

Jeff Breunsbach:

Today's Host

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Jeff Breunsbach

|Director of Customer Experience at Higher Logic
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Jay Nathan

|Chief Customer Officer at Higher Logic

Today's Guests

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Jordan Silverman

|Vice President of Customer Success at MarketMan